: 4582 | 108668 | 12353

@Name [TOLF] parameter for returning "Lastname, Firstname" 
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: 18
: 23
: 5
: Domino Designer
: formula, @name, i18n, names, column, collation
: Gregory Engels1762 03 Mar 2008
: / Email
Note This keyword is new with Release 8.5
Returns the name in the form of  Lastname, Firstname when a common name or a hierarchical name is provided. This is especially usefull when used as in a column formula, since it allows to sort the names bibliographically.
This is equivalent to using
@RightBack(@Name( [CN] ; Name );" ") + ", "+ @LeftBack(@Name( [CN] ; Name );" ")
@Name([TOLF];"CN=Gregory Engels/O=ACME/C=DE")
would return "Engels, Gregory"
Explanation: In Germany there is a standard for name sorting: DIN 31638 wich is based on ISO ISO 7154 and ISO/TR 8393, which lay down the bibliographic filing principles and specify their application rules.  In many contries it is custom to sort using this bibliografic collation principles.

1) Ben Langhinrichs7009 (03 Mar 2008)
I'd love such a thing, but it has huge problems with it. How do you account for "Maria von Trapp" and "Mary Anne Fleming", for example. The first should return "von Trapp, Maria", whereas the second should return "Fleming, Mary Anne", and there are much more complex variations. I made an effort to handle this in the sessions database, and the formula I came up with was:

@Unique(@Trim(@Transform(Speaker; "S";
@If(S = "TBD":"" | @Contains(S; "TBD"); "TBD";
@Do(R:=@Transform(@Explode(S; " "); "W";
@If(@Matches(W; "{a-z}*"); W+@RightBack(S; W)+", "+@LeftBack(S; W); @Nothing)); @If (@Trim(R) != ""; @Trim(R)[1]; @RightBack(S; " ")+", "+@LeftBack(S; " ")))))))

and even that makes assumptions that are unwarranted. It still doesn't handle the Spanish tradition of dual surnames such as "Alberto Gonzalez Ruiz", which would properly return as "Gonzalez Ruiz, Alberto". For these reasons, I have demoted the idea, much as I would like it for convenience.
2) Gregory Engels1762 (03 Mar 2008)
Well... I think, one should not try to solve it using naming schemes used by any country there is... otherwise this should go into international locale part of the operating system.

But the German phone directories use just that kind of sorting: "Last name, First name everything else" - so it would not be "von Trapp, Maria" but a "Trapp, Maria von"

A bigger problem is, where there is a suffix to the Family name like: "Angela Merkel MdB" or to max out the Spanish example: "Santiago María García de la Rasilla Domínguez SJ"
(even there is solution in that - don't hire any members of the German Bundestag or Spanish Bishops, or at least don't put them into a domino directory)

If you do have an application where it is required for names to bear all suffixes and prefixes than you still could write an formula to couple with that. But for most of my customers (in Germany) this [TOLF] would already do the trick.
3) Ben Langhinrichs7009 (03 Mar 2008)
But IBM has to think of such things as multiple languages. Given that you have a fairly simple workaround, I think it would be unwise of IBM to jump into this.
4) Gregory Engels1762 (03 Mar 2008)
Ben: well, you are absolutely right, the topic is quite complex. But I still would like to see "IBM jump into this", since some of the other @Name parameters like [TOKEYWORD] that are out there already are itself workarounds not more complex than the one I am suggesting.

And I know about some undocumented parameters to @Names as well that do other sorts of workarounds but unfortunately not the one I want, but perhaps such a parameter is already there and it is just not documented...
5) Bruce Currier5056 (05 Mar 2008)
Could it be as simple as linking in to the First Name, Middle Name, Last Name fields that are already stored in the NAB? This way, whatever is the proper way of specifying a specific name, your application could use it as long as the administrator setup the person document correctly.
6) Ben Langhinrichs7009 (05 Mar 2008)
It could be, but would then require a lookup to the NAB, which is not presently needed, which could an unpredictable performance hit. There are also lots of names which are not in the NAB but which would need this sort of call.

On the other hand, it would certainly be more likely to work, and if the performance hit were documented, it might not be a bad compromise.


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