XPages - Native support for RDB access 
Use this IdeaSpace to post ideas about Domino Designer.

: 119
: 120
: 1
: Domino Designer
: XPages, rdb, sql
: John Mackey643 06 Jul 2009
: / Email
XPages should have native access to RDB data.  This will allow the use of external SQL data in views and forms in conjunction with Notes data.  Moving Domino Designer to Eclipse was a big step forward in opening up the propertairy technology of the Lotus Notes development platform.  The next step to wider acceptance of Lotus Notes as an application development platform is to allow the tool to easily integrate with other systems in a corporate environment. 
Sure you can write java sql procedures and call them now from XPages server side javascript.  But this is a one off solution and more of a work around.  Or you can write routines to bring in this data into Notes (or use a third party product), but again this is additional work and effort and adds to the complexity of what should be a simple task.  Why shouldn't the developer be able to point and click and have data come from multiple data sources as with other development platforms?
I know this has been mentioned as a future enhancement for XPages but I feel we need to drum up support to make sure this happens.

1) Larry Helwig4415 (06 Jul 2009)
YES - but not just to DB2
2) John Mackey643 (06 Jul 2009)
Yes, I agree. At least the major rdb systems: DB2, SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL
3) Pascal Vachon16 (06 Jul 2009)
Same here!
I agree, DB2, MSSQL, MySQL and Oracle.
4) Tom Oneil2358 (06 Jul 2009)
I'll agree but I think it will be seldom used. Visual Studio has had ASP.NET database integration for years but all of the good developers write the data access layer on the back end.
5) Roland Reddekop4539 (06 Jul 2009)
I am primarily interested in access data to our "i" (i5/OS) through Xpages, but definitely Lotus Domino needs the other backends mentioned to become a serious player in the web dev world.
We have many apps accessing this data now through LCLSX and DECS, but its limited in what you can do.

6) Ben Langhinrichs7382 (07 Jul 2009)
To play devil's advocate just a bit, why would this be more widely used than the NSFDB2 features that were requested for years and not extensively used when they were available?
7) Bruce Elgort12540 (07 Jul 2009)

Because we have SQL Server dbs and other non DB2 data sources out there that we would just love to access data from.
8) Peter Presnell28487 (07 Jul 2009)
I believe IBM have already announced this feature is coming in a future release of Notes.
9) Arshad Mahmoud32 (07 Jul 2009)
Yes, I agree. bring it on par with ASP.net
10) John Mackey643 (07 Jul 2009)
@Ben, the NSFDB2 is different then this request. That was/is a datastore for Notes. This request is to add the ability to natively access data in other systems as well as Notes. Many of the applications in the corporations I have worked on require interaction with other applications across an enterprise, where reading and writing of RDB data in conjunction with my Notes data is required.

As a consultant I see this play out all the time. Corporations have Notes development groups as well as other competing development groups. A request comes in for a new application to a work intake manager. The request is assessed and assigned to the appropriate development team. If part of requirement is to access data from a RDB system, it is immediately assigned to a non-Notes team... unless there is a huge reason it has to be in Notes.

Native support for RDB will help DDE compete.
11) Angelo Pampalone4792 (07 Jul 2009)
Me too
Integrate with the big 4: DB2, MSSQL, MySQL and Oracle.
12) Roland Reddekop4539 (07 Jul 2009)
@those comparing this request to the defunct NSFDB2:

As John pointed out NSFDB2 isn't comparable to this request. I haven't the foggiest why IBM chose to port the entire NSF itself into DB2 when all we really wanted was the ability to read/write from other databases using basic SQL in a way that was more flexible than LEI, LCLSX, and DECS. Being on the "i" platform at my org we never got to taste it (fortunately so or I for certain would have had egg on my face and a mountain of legacy apps). IBM bit off more than they could chew and it fell apart. This request to create a simple interface to non-notes data has a reasonable scope and is strategic with real world practical benefits. The only reason I could imagine IBM would not do it would be due to internal competition between product managers and a fear of cannibalizing their other product's profit margins. If you can do it in Notes, why pay big dollars for_____.

13) Marie-Claude Mayrand13 (08 Jul 2009)
I agree, Native access should be there for major RDB
14) Starrow Pan5103 (13 Jul 2009)
An IBM consultant said more db source would be added to xPage in a demo.
15) Markus Köstner525 (13 Jul 2009)
Why not JDBC? Its standard and you could access almost every database you want.
16) John Mackey643 (13 Jul 2009)
@Markus, I would assume it's JDBC. That's up to IBM however. I mentioned the 4 RDBs that are essential whatever technology they use to implement the access.

@Starrow, this is an item that is being planned for a release, IBM has stated that. The issue is will it be sooner or later. I feel it should be high on the priority list.
17) David Wilkerson13 (17 Jul 2009)
Yes. I think that it is a serious omission that undermines the credibility of IBM's fidelity to the Domino platform. Too often they seem to hobble there products to drive customers to the 'more scalable' enterprise solution (J2EE based). I think that Domino has been a very strong player in the SMB market but for XPages to robustly deliver new life to the platform there must be RDM connectivity.
18) VIjaya Kumar22 (29 Jul 2009)
We should promote Notes Designer as universal development tool , and only competing product against .net . so the data population from any RDBMS is must. IBM should consider seriously and soon not in version 9 or 10 jerk.

19) John Turnbow914 (07 Aug 2009)
Yes Please!!!!
20) Lars Berntrop-Bos199 (16 Nov 2009)
I'm flabbergasted that JDBC isn't already supported.

ASAP please!
21) Andreas Imnitzer448 (17 Nov 2009)
I second Roland (#12). Moving from green screens to Xpages, maybe? Hey, IBM, it's both IBM technology, so start the engines.
22) Simon Badham26 (13 Jan 2011)
One more consideration, it MUST be possible to commit an RDBMS and Notes update as a single transaction!

We've used third party products to link Notes data with Oracle data sources and it's a nightmare. Notes data sources, and even individual Oracle tables, can be hit with updates with no possibility of rollback on failure.

The ability to commit a transaction across Notes and RDBMS would transform the way we could use XPages within our organisation. Lack of transactionality is one of the challenges in getting Domino solutions taken seriously in my business.
23) Mike Woolsey4870 (10 Feb 2011)
Some thoughts, in no particular order.

The Notes store in NSFDB2 isn't "regularly" readable in DB2. And DB2 doesn't just appear, it costs money to get it involved. The existing O&M cost goes up. (The early "eat what you cook" strategy runs aground when you're not the cook, you're the consumer who can pick from different menus. DB2 has to live by features, not by being essential to getting something done.)

Notes can't read-in a DB table in real time as if it's a view. I would likely not worry about the categorization feature even, if I had full-bore SQL access to say an Oracle or MySQL data store. Alternate sorting would be a plus, but that should probably be in the SQL instruction, not directly in the view definition. I can always explain, "Well, you get the minuses of SQL with the plusses."

Notes can't write-out a DB table using transactions. We simply need the ability to update transactionally in SQL. Give us the ability to write-out how an update occurs in SQL. That could include stored procedures, but it must not depend on stored procedures.

JDBC support would be great. I'd rather have it installed directly. At that point I'd love to see a "#{java: }" option. Hm, I haven't tried it, either.

SQL dominates the landscape in relational databases now. If we can support "whatever the target relational DB" supports in terms of SQL, that'd be a big plus.

XML stores promise a lot, though I haven't seen much delivery. Anyone else know how they're impacting?

Finally, for stability & security ODBC is not a great option, a dozen years later.
24) Mike Woolsey4870 (11 Feb 2011)
I had another thought this morning.

Notes has a "data connector" design element. What if we could pull that in as a data source on an XPage? This is by no means enough to do all the transactional processing needed. I would be asking for a dozen enhancements to data connectors if we do get this. But hey, this is an existing, real data source in the Domino suite of tools.

At least it's there. If someone knows how to integrate a data connector with XPages today, I'm interested to know.
25) Bruce Elgort12540 (16 Nov 2011)
Status changed to Complete
26) Bruce Elgort12540 (16 Nov 2011)
This was delivered with OpenNTF Extension Library available on OpenNTF at { Link }
27) Kiran Venkataraju10 (18 Nov 2011)
Yes Please
28) Bruce Elgort12540 (19 Nov 2011)
Status changed to Open
29) Howard Greenberg51 (21 Nov 2011)
This is in the Extension Library but there was strong support in a webinar on 11/18 to add this relational support to the official IBM version of the Update Pack.


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